S3 E1. From Trauma to Transformation: Empowering Women and Healing the Planet with Zainab Salbi

[00:00:00] At a very young age, I could see that all the men went to the front lines and all the news was just talking about the wars and about the tanks and the bullets and the soldiers and the military tactics.

[00:00:11] But I as a child was only experiencing war from a women's perspective. Everyone running life was a woman, the teachers, the police women, the doctors, everyone was a woman.

[00:00:24] And I remember watching the news as a child standing in front of the TV and I was like, wow, they don't see the war as I am experiencing it. Which is women trying to keep life going as the men were fighting and strategizing and doing like that.

[00:00:52] Welcome to season three of The Story of Woman. I'm your host, Anna Stoecklein.

[00:00:57] From the intricacies of the economy and healthcare to the nuances of workplace bias and gender roles, each episode of this season features interviews with thought leaders who provide fresh perspectives on critical global issues all through the female gaze.

[00:01:12] But this podcast isn't just about women's stories. It's about rewriting our collective story to be more inclusive, equitable and effective in driving change. It's about changing the current story of mankind to the much more complete story of humankind.

[00:01:42] Hello and welcome to season three of The Story of Woman. I am so glad that you're here. Before we get into it, I wanted to give you a quick update about the podcast, what to expect this season and what's to come in the future.

[00:01:59] So season three will look similar to seasons one and two. I'm speaking with authors, activists, business leaders and more, each episode exploring a different part of our world through the female gaze.

[00:02:10] So nothing majorly new there. But at the end of the season, I'm going to be releasing one episode for a new podcast idea that I have. But while it's new and different, it doesn't come from nowhere. I see it as an evolution of The Story of Woman.

[00:02:28] And I can't wait to tell you more about it when that episode comes out. Such a tease, I know. On a separate and somewhat personal note, I'm actually going to be living in Nairobi, Kenya through this 2023-2024 winter and spring.

[00:02:44] You may have heard the special episode I released in September, which was about the women deliver conference I attended in Rwanda. Well, while I was there, I met representatives from all different kinds of humanitarian and international development organizations that are doing incredible work in the region and beyond.

[00:03:03] And that got my wheels turning of how I could help tell the stories of these incredible women that the organization support. I also met a wonderful Kenyan journalist and podcaster there.

[00:03:16] And together we're going to see how we might be able to help bring these stories to life through the art of podcasting. So firstly, I just wanted to share that pretty big life update that I'll be in Nairobi for three, four, five, six months.

[00:03:32] But also say that if you or someone you know works for one of these kinds of organizations and think there might be a good collaboration opportunity, whether you're based in Nairobi or not, please get in touch.

[00:03:44] I'd love to have a chat with you and see if any ideas come to light. You can find all my contact details in the show notes. Lastly, you may notice more ads in the podcast now.

[00:03:56] I'm trying to keep those as relevant as possible and not impact the listening experience. But just as a reminder, you can get ad-free listening when you become a patron of the podcast. There's a link for that in the show notes as well.

[00:04:10] That's all for now. I hope you enjoy season three of the story of woman. Hello and welcome to the first episode of season three of the story of woman podcast. And what an incredible conversation we have to start it off.

[00:04:28] Today, I am speaking with Zainab Salbi, humanitarian author and journalist who as you'll hear me go on about right from the beginning has been named one of the women changing the world by everyone from Oprah Winfrey to Bill Gates.

[00:04:45] And Zainab has a remarkable personal story getting to that point, which we get into a bit today. Zainab started her career when she was just 23 years old as the founder and former CEO of Women for Women International, an organization that helps women survivors of conflicts.

[00:05:02] I've actually sponsored some women that they support for several years now and could not recommend them more highly if you're looking for ways to support women and families that have been impacted by war. More recently, Zainab co-founded Daughters for Earth, which is mobilizing

[00:05:18] and supporting women and girls all over the world who are at the forefront of safeguarding our planet. What I found so striking in our conversation was well a lot of things, but one was the

[00:05:32] parallels between what Zainab saw and experienced that led her to start Women for Women International 30 years ago and what she saw and experienced that led her to start Daughters for Earth more recently. In both instances, women were most impacted by the crisis or in the first instance climate

[00:05:50] change in the second and they were on the ground doing most of the work to keep life going. Yet they got very little to no attention, support or resources for solving these problems. I do think that story is changing because awareness is increasing and people like Zainab

[00:06:09] are stepping in to do something about it, but I still found this very striking. As you'll hear me repeatedly say during our conversation, I was blown away by Zainab's story and work and could have spoken with her for ages about so many things she has so much

[00:06:26] wisdom to offer. She has two bestseller books you might like to read, Between Two Worlds and Freedom as an Inside Job. She's also the creator and host of several shows including Me Too Now What on PBS and Through Her Eyes with Zainab Salbi at Yahoo News.

[00:06:44] She is also Chief Awareness Officer at FindCenter.com and host of the Redefined podcast. If you enjoy my conversation with Zainab, please share it with a friend. One recommendation goes a long way in the podcast world. But for now, please enjoy my conversation with Zainab Salbi.

[00:07:15] Hi Zainab, welcome and thank you so much for being here today. Anna, it's great to be here with you. Thank you. Yeah, I'm really excited for this conversation to dig into a bit of your story and the two incredible organizations that you've started amongst many other things.

[00:07:34] But to start in preparing for this, I noticed a common theme which is that you very frequently have been named one of the women who is changing the world. And this has been by publications ranging from Newsweek to The Guardian, Oprah Winfrey called you a woman who's

[00:07:52] changing the world and People Magazine and President Bill Clinton also called you one of the 21st century heroes among many other accolades. So before we get into it, it's not going to be hard to see why that is once we get into it.

[00:08:09] But before we get into your work, I want to talk a little bit about how you arrived at this point. So can you tell us a little bit about your upbringing and when you first knew

[00:08:20] that you were going to dedicate your life to helping women and marginalized people? Well, first of all, I don't know if I have arrived yet. I definitely arrived to my heart center. That's a different journey. But I grew up in a

[00:08:36] dictatorship in Baghdad, Iraq. And my life was a combination of beauty. I grew up in a loving family. I felt love in my family and my parents. And Iraq in the 70s when I was a child was a

[00:08:52] beautiful country. It still is a beautiful country, but it was also a relaxed country, let's say no wars, none of that drama. And life changed for me when Saddam Hossain took over. Not only became the president of the country, but just before that actually

[00:09:09] became a friend of my family. We did not choose the friendship. He chose the friendship when someone so with so much power chooses the friendship is far more complicated to deal with it than our normal lives, you know, as normal people. It's just different. I wrote a whole

[00:09:26] book about that complexities called Between Two Worlds. But that impacted my life. Three things particularly impacted my life. Knowing the dictator and calling him uncle, that's because we were related to him, but because he was a friend of my father and growing up seeing him all my teenage

[00:09:45] life basically on a weekly basis. And that impact is of fear. When I wrote my memoir, I was like, how do I explain fear to the world? Because fear for me was very tangible thing. I could touch

[00:09:57] it. And yet you can't prove its existence, right? So I grew up with fear and that really impacted and I grew up with knowing injustice and not being able to do anything about it. So my blessing

[00:10:09] is that I wasn't oblivious to the injustices. I went to a normal school. I could hear my classmates talk about public executions, about war, about killing all of that. And at night,

[00:10:22] would hang out with my family, with Saddam Hussein's palace and know that this is a different world we are living in. Know that there's a luxury and privileges that we are living in that my

[00:10:34] classmates at school are not having that experience. So I knew that power is corrupt at a young age. And I'm so glad I knew that. I tear up because I spent my life fighting that.

[00:10:49] The second thing is war. I was 11 years old, 10 years old when the war with Iran started at a very young age during that time. I could see that all the men went to the front lines and all

[00:11:02] the news was just talking about the wars and about the tanks and the bullets and the soldiers and the military tactics. But I as a child was only experiencing war from a women's perspective. Everyone running life was a woman, the teachers, the police women, the doctors, the everyone,

[00:11:21] my mother of course, right? Everyone was a woman. And I remember watching the news as a child standing in front of the TV and I was like, wow, they don't see the war as I am experiencing it,

[00:11:34] which is women trying to keep life going as the men were fighting and strategizing and doing like that. So at a very young age, I was aware that, oh, we're missing this other side of

[00:11:49] war basically. And eventually I came to learn we're missing this other side of peace of defining what peace is. And the third and most important part that made me come to this journey is really my

[00:12:01] mother. And of course, most of us have relationships with mothers, I would say good, but I can't generalize that either. It doesn't matter whether it's good or not, my mother, I am grateful for her

[00:12:16] because she made me read books when I was a teenager about women's rights. I mean, she would take me to the bookstore and buy me books about feminist books, women's rights in Arabic, you know,

[00:12:31] women's freedom. And she would make me read roots about American history and about slavery in America. And honestly, I'm so grateful for this Iraqi woman who lived all her life in Iraq, you know, she unfortunately had passed away since made me read about injustices around the world.

[00:12:53] And she would tell me the stories of what women had gone through and how each generation of women push the other generation for a better life from her great grandmother to her grandmother to

[00:13:06] her mother to me. She would tell me that, you know, her mother did not go to school or to high school. I mean, she went to primary school, you know, and then she made her daughters go to

[00:13:16] college. And my mother made me go to, you know, leave even the country too. So these impacted me. And I remember I was 16 years old when I turned to my mom as she was driving. And I said,

[00:13:29] mama, when I grow up, I'm going to help all women around the world. And instead of laughing at me, because every person who has dreams, there are always people who laugh at you. My mother turned

[00:13:41] to me and she said, and honey, you will and you can. That got imprinted on my life. And, you know, since then, I mean, between that time and the time I got to do something about it,

[00:13:55] was I was 16 years old. And by the time I founded women for women, I was 23 years old. I went through a lot of tribulations, believe it or not, I went through an arranged marriage,

[00:14:05] which does not mean that it was forced upon me, but it was arranged nevertheless. And you know, it's again complicated. My mother tried to get me out of Iraq and did not explain to me

[00:14:17] why. And it took me a very long time to understand why, but she begged me to accept a marriage of a man I did not know, which ended up being a horrible marriage. But that's what brought

[00:14:27] me to America and it ended up exposing me to the concept of rape. And then I, you know, left the marriage with $400 in my pocket. And I went to school studying translation and sociology. And it's like in hindsight, I'm 53 right now between 16 and 23 is actually nothing. You know,

[00:14:47] it took me only that time to find out that this is my calling. And the calling is personal. It's not like you mentioned this awards and when you were talking about this award,

[00:15:01] all the times that I got the awards, I'm honored and touched by them, but they didn't touch me. They didn't touch ego. They didn't feed me. I was even surprised for the long the sounds like,

[00:15:14] why do people do these awards things? I don't understand them like really didn't really, really, really, really didn't it because I was simply following my heart's calling, my pain, my attempt to do something about it. My commitment to stand up against injustice.

[00:15:35] I mean, I'm grateful that I was exposed to the corruption of power at a young age. And I was exposed to understanding war from a different perspective at a young age. I'm even grateful that I had gone through all the violation and moving from richness to poverty

[00:15:53] at a young age. I'm so grateful because they made me the person I am. And all that got me to do the work that I am doing is I am just simply following my heart's calling. That is it.

[00:16:08] If I succeed, then I am trying to follow my heart's calling. If I fail, then I'm trying to follow my heart's calling. It doesn't matter what the world is saying or not saying, I'm just simply doing my journey. Well, I think we can wrap the interview right

[00:16:24] there. That was absolutely beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing. And it's just such a beautiful way to look at your whole life's journey of these things happen, these circumstances.

[00:16:39] And without them, I would not be who I am. I would not be able to follow my heart in this way or would look different. And we can look at and we'll get into the millions, might I say,

[00:16:53] of people's whose lives you've impacted and all of that stems from these origins that you speak of. So that's such a beautiful way to look at it. And yeah, your story is incredible

[00:17:06] and you've touched on it a bit here, but I definitely encourage everyone to listen to more interviews with saying reader books because you find yourself in this situation in America, in a foreign country. This is after everything you talk about in Iraq that was going on and

[00:17:22] you're upbringing. And then you're in America in a foreign country with $400 in your pocket after this horrific situation with your abusive ex. And from there, you end up rebuilding your life and at the prime, the incredibly young age of 23 years old after all of this,

[00:17:45] you started Women for Women International. And it's just an incredible journey. So I want to continue our story on from there. But before we get into how on earth you did that, give it just your age, but then on top of that the situation and everything that

[00:18:05] led you to that point. Can you just tell us a little bit about what Women for Women International is? Women for Women International simply works with women survivors of force to help them rebuild their lives after the destruction of war. The program is designed

[00:18:22] in a very simple way, you know, by the time you reach the women, whether it is in the midst of conflict as it's going on right now or after the conflict, they've gone through a lot. Their

[00:18:33] homes have been pillaged. Some of them have been personally violated or family members have been violated or emotionally traumatized. And they have lost everything. Our model is, okay, we're here to help you rebuild. So it's a combination between emotional support,

[00:18:52] but also very practical support. Okay, let's do it. Let's stand on our feet. We don't have a choice in here. And it does a few things. One is they need financial support. They need cash.

[00:19:05] You know, I everyone appreciate the money and the food and that it's cash they need because there's something about cash that gives people the integrity and the dignity to go to the store

[00:19:18] and buy what they need. Not the clothes we send them. I'm not against donating clothes. I don't, you know, but not the clothes that we send them. Not the food we send them. It is what

[00:19:31] they need. So first we do cash. So we ask every woman around the world to send $30 a month to one woman for one year only, basically, and exchange letters and pictures to that one woman for one

[00:19:50] year. That $30 a month, half of it goes to the women and the other half goes to the following. That woman, let's say whatever country, Rwanda, let's say Rwanda then is grouped with 20 other women

[00:20:04] and they create a women's circle basically. And that women's circle means every week to learn women's rights, to learn about their rights in society, in economy, in culture, in family, just to understand, oh my God, I have this right because most women, not most. I mean,

[00:20:25] yes, women at the very grassroots level if you have not had exposure to education, you do not know your rights. You've been like hammered over decades of generations saying that this is who we are. And even in countries like America we're still finding out and it's 5.4.

[00:20:44] Right? Because more like this is your legal rights. This is your rights in these societies in general as a woman. So build confidence, build knowledge. Then the second part of the training is give them very tangible business training. We do market assessments. We see

[00:21:00] what the society's spending money on and give them very practical business skills like literally carpentry or farming, literal skills combined with how to do your finances, how to do your business plan, all of these things. So the theory is access to education plus access to resources

[00:21:20] leads to lasting change. I do not believe that only if you give women education they will be okay, or only if you give women money they'll be okay. The truth is behavior change takes different

[00:21:32] interventions and these two interventions as we came to discover at Wilmer Fohman actually make a lasting change. Her knowledge plus her resources. So that's in a nutshell and that program was started in Bosnia during the war and we improved it over years and now has impacted more than

[00:21:53] half a million women directly, raised more than $150 million to them in direct aid and in micro loans because after they graduate from the one year there is a big graduation and then we help them get jobs whether it's formal jobs, informal or their own businesses.

[00:22:11] And we have connected another half a million women from 68 countries to support these other half million women all over the world in 16 countries thus far. I founded it and run it and

[00:22:24] poured my heart and soul in it for 20 years and since then I handed over to a wonderful CEO and a friend Laurie Adams who took it for 10 years and we just celebrated our 30th anniversary

[00:22:38] and I don't have literally, I don't have children. This is my child and at the moment I see my child as an adult and growing and celebrating and nothing tickles my heart more than seeing that.

[00:22:53] I can only imagine I mean over a half of a million women 150 million in aid it's incredible and again thinking about this stimming from that 23 year old who was touched personally and decided to do something about it and here you are 30 years later. It's just

[00:23:14] absolutely extraordinary and I want to ask some questions specifically about what you've learned from these women because I can only imagine the number of women from all walks of life that you have spoken with whose lives you have observed in the most atrocious of situations

[00:23:33] but real quick I want to circle back to that 23 year old because you know a lot of us have dreams and hopes and we want to help and it comes from personal places or places that have touched

[00:23:45] our hearts but how did you go from having this touching your heart as a 23 year old to what you've built today? Obviously that's going to be a bit of a long answer but maybe the kind of

[00:23:59] beginning stages that got you through. You know I first started demonstrating. Remember I believe because I grew up in that circumstances. I grew up in a circumstance that I saw injustices and couldn't do something about it because if I've done something about it my parents would

[00:24:17] be killed. My family would be killed. That was a very linear connection, a direct correlation between speaking up so I knew what's wrong but there was a lot of fear to speak up and responsibility.

[00:24:32] So when I came to America and left my abusive husband and realized the one thing America gives you with all its troubles with all its like you know being an immigrant in America is

[00:24:44] like you're constantly learning oh my god what they said it is you know but it does give you freedom of expression. It gave me a freedom of expression. It may not give everyone freedom of expression so I

[00:25:00] do not want to generalize. It gave me even though I am from Iraq at that time Iraq was the terrorist country where everyone is afraid of and da da da and now there were people

[00:25:12] afraid of me because I'm Iraq and there was a lot of racism and discrimination. I still had a freedom of expression. I still did and when I noticed it I was like oh my god I was like a child discovering

[00:25:26] chocolate for the first time so excited and I felt responsibility now that I live in a country that gave me that freedom. I cannot not use that freedom that's a grammatically wrong thing

[00:25:42] I cannot you know it's my responsibility to use that freedom and so I felt responsible for it when I saw now injustices. So when I saw the war in Bosnia I was studying the Holocaust in college

[00:25:55] for the first time in my life and the same month I studied the Holocaust there was front page images of concentration camps and rape camps in Bosnia and Herzegovina and it was a very simple thing

[00:26:07] they said this is Rome and they said never again it is happening again right now in front of my eyes for me it was learning about two facts at the same month and I felt responsibility to do

[00:26:19] something about it because you know those who stood up against the Holocaust are also individuals I mean I know the government's in here but they were individuals who did something so I felt

[00:26:29] like I can as an individual and must do everything I can and so even though I had no idea where Bosnia and Herzegovina is what is this country what is the language who is this people what is their

[00:26:43] religion nothing I knew nothing but I knew there were concentration camps and rape camps and women were violated and I'm living in a country that gives me the freedom to do something

[00:26:54] about it thus I must do something about it right that my human responsibility and at the beginning I joined demonstrations and I want to speak about this point for a while because a lot of people

[00:27:03] go to demonstrations and feel great about ourselves and then we go home and have our cappuccinos and you know and forgets and so I did go to these demonstrations and after a

[00:27:14] while it's like but this is not doing anything for their people I mean it's doing of course it's political pressure is doing whatever but it's not helping those who are in the concentration

[00:27:25] camps you know I mean like we need to do something so I decided to first volunteer there were no there were not many groups working for Bosnia then I came up with my own project and said

[00:27:38] I want to do this if I can't volunteer if I can't join something then we'll do this I don't have money I don't have experience but I have $30 a month I can give $30 a month and that's

[00:27:48] the creation of that project you know and I was like I'm sure other women do and I just put it out there so you said how did I do that you know I came up with the idea because I didn't have money

[00:28:01] I didn't have experience but I was like we can do this and I understood what it means to be in war you feel the world have abandoned you you feel the world has forgotten about you so

[00:28:10] I knew that this emotional connection from someone saying I care about you you are here I see you is important but you know I can't take the credit myself first of all I was at that time

[00:28:22] married to my very very good friend and former husband and co-founder of women for my international I'm Jodha Talla who was very supportive of me saying you can do it let's do it and then I

[00:28:32] met with the Unitarian Church all older people their board I presented to them I was 22 year old kids saying this is what I want to do and their life will support you for a year until

[00:28:42] you stand on your feet and then I said giving speeches and women I did not know who they are called me and they said we want to join you we also have only 30 dollars a month to come to give

[00:28:52] and it literally started from 33 women 33 American women I do not know who these 33 women I just they called me at that time you know but we found out a way and it's like I'm discovering this

[00:29:05] myself you know and they trust there was trust they were saying well okay we'll do this with you I went to Croatia which is now a tourist country but at that time was a world conflict area and

[00:29:18] found refugee camps I found a woman to help us deliver and it started in September 1993 by helping 33 women and me in a bus distributing that money to refugees and speaking with the woman

[00:29:34] and it just grew it grew so first of all I really cannot take credit from myself because it was everyone chiming in everyone did their bits you know first is the women who sponsored the donors

[00:29:47] and the staff then my my in-laws support everyone chimed in right what does it mean my personality I mean I'm just because I still believe I'm a believer I'm a believer in making the impossible

[00:30:02] possible I'm a believer in the possibilities of creating change in the world I'm a believer you know I didn't have job experience I mean I was working as an assistant to someone else

[00:30:15] but it wasn't much of experience I guess I have honestly other than believing I don't know what else and sort of a sense of but of course I can and since then I've not only manifested

[00:30:31] women for women but other projects you know sometimes you fail and I'm very hard on myself when I feel and I've come to learn okay you know I'm grateful for the failure because they're humbling

[00:30:43] and they remind you of the because you get successful at a certain point and you become arrogant in your success you forget what it means to start you forget what it means to be

[00:30:54] on your knees so I became even grateful for my failure okay okay but honestly if I am to distill it I would say a combination if I am extremely honest of believing and probably a dose of

[00:31:09] arrogance I would say in a constructive way you know or because you have to have some confidence to say I do it even though you really don't have any tools or I am a woman of color who's

[00:31:25] a Muslim from Iraq was in America in the time of my country being called horrible things and I had just gotten out of an abusive marriage I could have stayed in my victimhood said oh my

[00:31:38] god you're all racist against me and you're discriminant which there was a lot and I was angry at it right or I just like there must be some arrogant to say okay I'm gonna just do it

[00:31:52] you know and yeah I wrote my last book was about shadows on light and how do you own your light and your shadow to change yourself and change the world and I'm constantly looking into my

[00:32:08] shadows and recently I discovered that actually one of my shadows is a sense of arrogant which gave me that boost of energy and confidence that I can do it and I mean maybe I'm saying it in

[00:32:20] a harsh way to myself you know you can see confidence but it has a way of feeling I can do it I think yeah I know what you mean by arrogance but I'm gonna push back on that one I think it sounds

[00:32:32] like you know it could almost just be belief all around you have belief that the world can be better and you have belief that you're able to make it better belief in yourself and it might

[00:32:43] be a really strong belief very and I believe in the goodness of humanity I really do I mean I've seen the worst of humanity I've seen acts of humanity that you can't imagine humans do this to

[00:32:59] each other let alone to animals to each other and I've been hurt a lot by humans a lot but I still have seen goodness in humanity I've still seen beauty and love and kindness and generosity and I feel

[00:33:20] we have a choice to look at the bad part and be bitter and angry about it and all of us experience the bad part some more than the others or to look at it but also equally pay attention to the

[00:33:34] good part to the loving and kind and generous part and I tend to look at the glass half full part you know there is goodness there is love in humanity and I'm gonna choose to stick to that love

[00:33:50] well like you said there's lightness and there's darkness so yeah when you can see the lightness in humanity as a whole that's a much I think stronger driver in the direction that you're taking the world I mean it's incredible

[00:34:21] so I want to hear then what you have learned from the women that you have encountered because presumably you have talked to thousands more women from all around the world you have a very

[00:34:37] unique perspective and opportunity having spoken to women I mean to humanity you know not just women but I do want to talk about women specifically so you have seen light you have seen darkness

[00:34:51] but yeah what have you what have you learned so many things and they're not by any order but one of them is women are strong honestly women are very strong my latest line I just recently came

[00:35:09] from Kenya and so some amazing work women were doing to protect the earth and is you know I came out of experiencing them and their work like women are in their power they do not need to be

[00:35:25] empowered they need endorsement of their power they need reinforcement of their power they re-support of their power they need celebration of their power they need to be heard for their power

[00:35:40] they do not you know honestly and this comes not only from from the women I met like if if we go through half of what they've gone through some of them and stood up to the women they are we

[00:35:58] are like honestly in like after seeing some of the women what they've gone through I was like who am I to be meritomatic about my my issues you know it's like I have a friend who whatever it was

[00:36:10] like she's like oh it's too much I'm caring too much energy I was like caring too much energy oh my god I mean you should see what these women are going so most women I don't want to say all women but

[00:36:23] most women are really strong and powerful and resilient but we have been hit by society for an all society all of them you know for generations and created doubt and abuse and silence and all

[00:36:38] of that right but they are powerful and they are strong to survive and thrive despite all the racism and the sexism and the violence and all of that is an act of resilience and power it's I am in awe

[00:36:56] of them so that's one resilience and appreciation the second I learned to appreciate personally beauty from women because I studied women's studies here in America in my undergrad and I'm having issues with women's studies as I reflect on my studies because it was much more

[00:37:20] towards like I came out of it defining feminism as strong and as do not highlight your beauty you know you're seeing or strong or I didn't want anybody to distinguish me what's the

[00:37:33] difference between woman and that physically like I would wear a suit all of these things right so I took myself as this activist feminist who presented myself in a very particular way and I learned from the women's softness you know softness and the importance of beauty

[00:37:50] and the importance of femininity and that does not mean weakness it's actually strength and it is part of the essence of life and I learned it in so many ways I mean the story that

[00:38:03] I often repeat was my first time to Sarajevo which was a busy city and you know this was a very horrible horrible horrible war and I went and I was like you know it was not easy to enter the

[00:38:15] city you have to go through the UN playing da da da and then I went to the ones like okay what do you want me to bring your next time I'm here and they're like lipstick

[00:38:24] I was like lipstick who cares about lipsticks don't you need I don't know I'm against weapons but don't you need pens and papers and vitamins and you know write with your resistors and

[00:38:37] they're like it's the simplest thing that we can put on and feel beautiful and tell the sniper before he kills us that he is killing a beautiful person or I learned from women in Congo or in

[00:38:51] Rwanda that they lost everything and yet they plant flowers in front of their humble huts that's just beauty or women in Afghanistan where they lost everything and yet they care for I mean now

[00:39:06] just the newest that Taliban close all the beauty palors today in Afghanistan and it is from the Afghan woman I learned how to take care of myself my eyebrow my upper lips why you know

[00:39:17] all the things that is important like that that beauty feeds us and we should not dismiss it we should not reject it as feminists as activists you know we should embrace it that softness is

[00:39:30] actually beautiful and over time it took me they took me to learn about the importance of feminine values and that these feminine values are not only soft they are strong they're multi-dimensional

[00:39:44] like masculine values but that we need to learn them and we need to appreciate them and we need to honor them and incorporate them and lead with them in our lives I learned that from the women

[00:39:53] and I learned humility I learned that knowledge the meaning of knowledge is not limited to books and intellectual knowledge you know there are a lot of people who like repeats quote one author after the other and like their sentences is quoting and I feel very insecure

[00:40:11] because I don't remember these authors or not read these books and oh my god you know I learned that is part of knowledge knowledge we learn in schools knowledge we learn in books

[00:40:24] and we by repeating to each other what we remember the other part of knowledge that I learned from the women is intuitive knowledge it is on the ground knowledge people who are poor and uneducated

[00:40:36] know what is needed they are not oblivious they are not stupid they are not ignorant they know what is needed it is us frankly who are educated quote unquote people who are arrogant

[00:40:50] too arrogant to understand that we need to be humble so we can listen what the people on the ground need and we think our intellectual knowledge you know is the knowledge knowledge I came to

[00:41:07] learn is both and if one takes over the other is not good it's not constructive it is a combination of both historical understanding of what's going on and science and math and all the research and data and figures and facts and all of that but also intuitive heartfelt

[00:41:31] I believe the heart has a language and has wisdom and it's wisdom as important as the mind's wisdom in my opinion and that people on the ground know what is needed and we need to

[00:41:44] combine and that is the highlight of my learnings from them. I could hear you talk about this all day and I love that way of thinking and I couldn't agree more with absolutely everything that you've

[00:42:01] said and the heart and the mind and the needing to come together and the masculine and the feminine and those coming together I mean it's embracing all of who we are and I mean

[00:42:13] it's so much more than it's yeah listening to not coming in with our solutions putting on top of people but going back to you know the power we don't need to they have the power circling back to that I

[00:42:26] mean just everything everything resonates I want to keep talking about that but I also want us to make sure we have time for your current world changing organization that you have recently

[00:42:43] started so I would love to have you tell us about Daughters for Earth what it is why female led climate action is so important and then I would love to get into some of the projects

[00:42:57] that you're working to support as well so Daughters for Earth in essence is basically arguing that women are actually playing major role in climate change and that actually we cannot stall we humanity cannot fall the biggest existential crisis facing our existence beyond nations and borders and all

[00:43:26] of that without the full inclusion of half of humanity's population and that is women and I do not want to by the way apologize or even say the word women because lately you have to like worry about

[00:43:43] even though it's like I was like I am claiming my women hoods and all of that and all of the children of women inclusive of all genders but I'm also women so that's the word Daughters because

[00:43:59] Daughters and all of her children basically so first that second is climate change is impacting significantly women and mostly in displacements because of the crisis that is creating as well as in food scarcity because it is ultimately women who tend to be less mobile than men who are

[00:44:22] responsible for their foods and the children's food basically so it's really impacting women in a more severe way than it's impacting men in general and that's what the world is talking about there's

[00:44:34] some figures about that at the UN is producing basically what we discovered is women are actually leading some of the most important human-led climate solutions according to the scientists so if you hear the news we're only talking about technology as a solution to climate change

[00:44:56] well actually according to one earth science scientists came a group of scientists came saying we have three directions to solve climate change the most important one is to protect 50% of earth leave her alone which for me makes complete sense because whatever disease you have

[00:45:17] whatever illness you have the first thing the doctors tell you no matter what you have is go and rest because the body regenerates itself when we are resting wow like that for human right I mean

[00:45:31] apparently earth is the same thing huh like surprise right so that is number one most important intervention actually to solve climate change and it's not only 50% of every country these lands have been mapped and water have been mapped so it is 40% of this country but 20% of this

[00:45:51] but it's been mapped it's called the zero net corridor and if you go to one earth.org that you actually see the earth's map and how this is to understand where are these 50% right the second

[00:46:04] intervention is to shift to regenerative agriculture which is about the health of the soil again for me is common sense right our body's health it would generate our health right so the health of the soil is most important and that's as what's known some call it

[00:46:20] regenerative agriculture that some call it something else but that is the second and the third yes is to shift to renewable energy which was all the media is focused on and I

[00:46:31] believe it is because it's so technology led and that's very men led so it's not wrong it's just not the only way I mean we have enough technology to lead us to the solution we don't need to invent

[00:46:43] and put more money in new technologies now women what we discovered are actually taking huge actions in the first two actions in protecting land and water biodiversity animals rewilding and in shifting to regenerative agriculture because women are 60 to 80% of small scale farmers in the

[00:47:00] world but do we hear about women leading solutions none and do we know how much women get of all the environmental funding that goes two cents out of every dollar wow and that's really when I

[00:47:13] discovered that and I'm not a climate expert I understand the world of women but it's like oh my god here comes the story again women impacted the most by a crisis they do a lot of

[00:47:28] their work to keep life going they get no attention and no support and resources and we've got to check I mean it's like for me it's a family right and so the activists the feminists in me I was

[00:47:41] like oh they gotta do something about it but something else happened in me and I almost died exactly four years ago short of four days and I moved from a perfect day in my life top of my

[00:47:58] mountain to the ICU to the operating room where I thought I was taking my last breath this is like that was a second of that's it and I was very sick for a year and a half and I couldn't

[00:48:17] live in the city anymore I grew up in a city I lived all my life in cities I am a city woman and when I was really sick I couldn't live in the city and the only place I could live in was

[00:48:29] nature and in that time where I lost my ability to speak to think I lost my cognitive abilities my nervous system fell apart like just hearing sounds felt a thousand times more in my

[00:48:42] ears and I couldn't do anything I just stayed in nature and out of that I came with such profound appreciation and connection and joy for nature that I 100% believe nature saved my life I don't

[00:49:03] mean only good food eating good food I was eating good food I mean I felt the trees were giving me like you go girl you go girl you go to the like walk I felt each wave of ocean was like an electric

[00:49:19] shock to my lungs so I can breathe I came out with such deep gratitude to earth such deep gratitude that I have I'm sorry I missed appreciating her before you know I feel like if earth was a friend

[00:49:37] she would have broken up with us long time ago for being the most self-centered narcissistic controlling unappreciative friend to her and I was that like like I was like a bird sure now I look at a bird

[00:49:54] in my garden and I say this is like make life worth it honestly I'm not I look at a humming bird it's like this makes all life worth it just to see this four years ago that happened

[00:50:05] but I became healthy two years and a half ago and I came out saying I do not understand climate change but I shall do everything in my capacity to stand up for mother earth and to protect her that's all

[00:50:20] what I know and with that came I went to my co-founder Jodi Allen who had asked me to do something what can we do to mobilize women in climate change and that's the intellectual

[00:50:32] research that I sort of mind led the research that I shared with you earlier but then there was a hearts opening in the process and I came and said this is big like we don't have 20 years to do we

[00:50:46] have now and let's co-found a group called Daughters for Earth and less mobilize 100 million dollars to find and fund women led climate solutions to celebrate women's efforts and what they're doing and show it to the world and to give the science and the knowledge to everyday women

[00:51:06] to understand what is going on to understand human led solution and to give tools and resources to every woman that she he oh they and all the gender capacities can do something about

[00:51:19] their lives basically because we can I think we are living in the era of the people and the era of the people does not mean only we all go on Instagram or any of the social media and

[00:51:33] populate to these things the era of the people means that people rise up and create change and this is for me daughters rising up all around the world to create change some because they're giving money you know we're asking people to give ten dollars a month only two

[00:51:54] dollars for the hummingbird effect we're just launching a campaign called the hummingbird effect to basically and the essence do all you can whatever you can to stand up for mother earth some are like

[00:52:05] putting their lives out there and protecting the earth and all of us we need to again unite for the only mother we all have the only home we all have so I again believe we can

[00:52:24] if people don't believe after that then I don't know what just incredible and yeah the parallels you drew of what you witnessed in your younger years with women and what

[00:52:38] we're witnessing now that is something to be drawn on I mean I could go on for another hour with you about that specifically that scent light bulbs off in my head thinking about it in that way and here

[00:52:49] you are again doing your thing so back to the beginning of the conversation really really not hard to understand as much as you don't care about the awards why you are seen as a woman

[00:53:04] changing the world because you literally are the people in it and the planet itself and coming from your heart center again that story that led you to where you are today was purely from your personal

[00:53:17] experience from your heart center and I have to imagine that's what helps keep you going because I imagine you get asked a lot what keeps you going and you know I'm kind of curious about

[00:53:28] that but I do think you know when a person follows their heart and that's where it comes from you almost feel like you don't have another choice I don't you know I really it's so simple for me

[00:53:40] because I can't not do that and when I been in situations where I try to do something I was 10 years in the journalism world and it's a trickier world that world you can't always be

[00:53:56] in integrity to your voice I literally something dies inside me if I am not in alignment when I'm trying to say to myself inside I die inside so it's very very simple I don't know if other people

[00:54:12] also do that but something dies in me and I can't I don't want to live life like that so all the other aspects where we sacrifice ourselves for money security whatever it is for me

[00:54:25] I can't sacrifice my alignment to myself for that security I believe I just have to follow my own alignment and that security comes yes you know eventually comes and it may not be in the

[00:54:43] volume that you know all of whatever but it comes as long as I'm living well and I'm living in integrity and I'm eating and happy you know who cares if you do if you get this or this you know

[00:54:58] it doesn't matter so as long as that happens but yeah that's for me is my compass what is inside is only me no am I in alignment or not I love that and once again couldn't agree more so I want

[00:55:12] to end with some kind of I don't really like the word advice but some kind of inspiring thought from yourself to our listeners and what you're just saying at the end got me thinking because I understand everything that you're talking about that certainly resonates that

[00:55:28] something that I try to do is stay in alignment and I feel like a part of me dies as well if I do not but I'm just thinking if this is more conceptual for people or people you know

[00:55:41] want to live this aligned life this heart-centered life but they're stuck in these other loops that maybe don't feel like they are their lives it can be really hard to move from that to what you're

[00:55:55] talking about this alignment for the practical reasons of what you might have to give up and change but even just like knowing what your heart wants when we've been trained for so long to

[00:56:06] listen only to our head so yeah it's kind of a big question to end with well I want to answer it with a roomy poem and I'm gonna paraphrase Broomie's 13th century poet and I love him in love with

[00:56:24] him I wish he gets reincarnated somehow but there's a poem I'm rephrasing it but it says the garden is beautiful and luscious and the flowers are blooming and the butterflies are

[00:56:42] you know dancing if you come it is beautiful if you do not come it is still beautiful now what is the connection between when I'm trying to say and you know or your question you have to

[00:56:58] find the garden in yourself and that means to live in alignment you take risk it's a lot of jumping off the cliff for me a lot of it for me to tell the truth about my family's upbringing my upbringing

[00:57:14] and my family's religious shutdown that was a jumping off the cliff I risked everything everything to tell the truth but the truth freed me starting woman for women leaving women for women

[00:57:32] you know starting a new path all of them are feels at that moment you are jumping off the cliff as in jumping from the safety of what you know and sometimes that safety is not good

[00:57:45] I mean it's familiar but it's not good some women stay in not good marriages not abuser but not good marriages because of the safety of the marriage of the financial safety that the marriage provides

[00:58:01] or some men do the same thing by the way you know emotional but it's not good people stay in jobs it's not because it's good because they are attached to the safety so the jumping

[00:58:11] off the cliff is a risk but that risk often in my opinion led me to my freedom and every time I took that leap of faith to follow my heart center and it's scary I'm like and you jump

[00:58:28] and you all for me always found my wings in the process always landed somehow some way I trust life I personally trust life but my compass is to follow my truth and the more I

[00:58:44] follow my truth the more the dark stones in my chest that gave me anxiety disappear you know and they become clear crystals basically right and so the truth lead you to the garden

[00:59:01] of yourself inside of you now when I say if you come it is beautiful if you don't come it's beautiful the attachment to what people say or think or what society measures as success

[00:59:17] or failure or good or bad is irrelevant it because that's attachment to us and many of us right you know it's not that I don't have it by the way I'm aware of it and when I catch myself

[00:59:33] in it of ah here it is right and so we all wired like that so you have to take that risk and be willing that you're not going to be liked and approved by everyone you have to in order to follow

[00:59:49] you're bliss and you have to trust that life like nature demonstrates has a way to reorient itself like hurricanes happen within few months or few years it's luscious again fires happen and it regrows again life is that in our lives as well so you can stay in this

[01:00:15] barren you know life or job or relationship or whatever it is and stay in your fear all you can take risk and follow your heart and trust it will work out that's how it worked out

[01:00:33] for me so I can only share that but the journey is hard I do not want to sugarcoat it it is freaking hard but the taste of chocolate at the end of the journey is so delicious that it makes

[01:00:51] it all worth it my heart is broken over and over again I promise you but as a Sufi saying says break my heart or break my heart again so I can love even more so the journey breaks my heart

[01:01:08] there are people who criticize you there are people who hurt you there are insecurities you go through but in that heartbreak there is an opening and you can choose to make the opening enabling

[01:01:23] to love even more all right I cannot think of a better note to end on I don't want to end I want to just keep going forever but the time has come thank you so much for that thank you so

[01:01:41] much for this entire hour for everything you have done for the planet for the people on the planet and no doubt that will continue to be impact that ripples down from this for ever from your work it's absolutely incredible and I'm so thankful that you've shared your

[01:02:00] story and your journey and your learnings and everything else with us today thank you so much I'm truly grateful for your company your questions and the space that you have created that is so beautiful and I invite everyone to join Daughters For Earth just check DaughtersForEarth.org

[01:02:17] and just see it and learn at the minimum and maybe you'll do more but just go there if you can thank you thank you absolutely link will be in the show notes

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