BONUS: Featuring Anna on The Nurse Keith Podcast: Leveraging Women’s Empowerment to Benefit Health and Well-Being

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[00:00:55] I got a really positive response from you all about hearing more of my story and getting a bit of a behind-the-scenes look at the podcast. So I thought I'd go ahead and share this episode as well. Nurse Keith is a holistic career coach for nurses, a professional podcaster,

[00:01:12] published author, award-winning blogger, inspiring keynote speaker, and a successful nurse entrepreneur. It's been really cool to connect with someone else who's both a nurse and a podcaster and we get into that a bit today in our conversation talking about some of the overlapping skills these professions have.

[00:01:31] And we also talk about the inequities that still exist in our healthcare systems both for patients and nurses themselves and what I witnessed personally during my clinical nursing days. We talk about the podcast quite a lot. Keith asked me about some of the main lessons

[00:01:46] I've learned from all the people that I've interviewed, how I choose topics for the podcast, and if I was named Queen of the World tomorrow, what's one of the first things I would want to do to improve the lives of my subjects?

[00:02:00] It's a great conversation or at least I think so and I'd be very keen to hear what you think. So let me know if you enjoy listening to me on the other side of the mic hearing more of my story

[00:02:13] and getting this deeper behind the scenes look, and be sure to check out the Nurse Keith podcast wherever you get your podcast and connect with Keith at nursekeith.com. But for now please enjoy my conversation with Keith on the Nurse Keith podcast.

[00:02:29] We're all the same. I'm at our core at the end of the day. We tend to look at the external, our religions, you know how much money we make, our skin color, our gender, but at our core we're all the exact same

[00:02:45] and that can be applied to not just the differences I've mentioned, but also to people who have done really amazing things in this world that at our core were all the same and anybody listening, anybody who wants to

[00:03:00] can do incredible things as well. There's nothing that separates us. How does healthcare bias impact women's health? And what can we do to leverage women's empowerment and representation in the healthcare space and beyond? Let's talk all about it with Anna Stekline, a registered nurse and the founder,

[00:03:21] producer and host of the story of women podcast right here on episode 421 of the Nurse Keith show. Hey there, this is Nurse Keith. This podcast is all about you, your personal professional development, your career and the healthcare system writ large.

[00:03:39] And I'm here to share education, ideas, diatribes and informative interviews with some of the most inspiring people from the worlds of healthcare, nursing, entrepreneurship, medicine and beyond. I love having you along for the ride and I thank you from the bottom of my Nurse Podcaster's heart

[00:03:57] for being part of the growing Nurse Keith Nation. And guess what? You can now get CEUs from listening to podcasts. That's right at RNNGAY.PRO, that's R-N-E-G-A-D-E dot pro. They're building a library of nursing podcasts and since you're listening anyway, why not earn credits while you listen?

[00:04:19] So head over to RNNGAY.PRO, look for me or any other content creator. Start listening, learning and earning. And if you'd like to help other people find the show, consider leaving a rating and review on Apple, Google, Amazon, Spotify or just share the show with anyone you know.

[00:04:35] And if you want to become a patron, patreon.com, p-a-t-r-e-o-n dot com forward slash Nurse Keith. I appreciate y'all so, so very much. The show notes will be at nursekeith.com in the drop down podcast menu

[00:04:51] or of course the show notes will be available in any app where you happen to be listening. As I said at the top of the show, we're here with my friend and colleague Anna Stecline, a fellow podcaster and we have so much to talk about Anna.

[00:05:07] And the first question I have for you is what is it like being a nurse who's jumped into the podcasting space specifically the women's empowerment space?

[00:05:21] Oh well great first question to start off with and first I'd just like to say hello and thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to get the opportunity to speak with you. And a nurse jumping into the women's empowerment space and podcasting, you know.

[00:05:39] I think about the skills that I developed as a nurse and carried those over into podcasting world and there's quite a lot, you know from having to think on your feet and be able to have conversations with people

[00:05:54] and put them at ease and doing 10 different things at once. But what I really like about the space that I'm in with podcasting specifically and kind of as it relates to nursing is feeling like I'm giving back, doing something meaningful and purposeful.

[00:06:13] So you know the reason I got into nursing in the first place is because I have always kind of had this desire to help people and I don't know how much will go into my journey but obviously I kind of have left the clinical space at some point

[00:06:31] and it was really important for me to be able to continue doing something meaningful that I felt like had purpose and could touch people's lives. And healthcare really as I started getting into these different issues about women, women's empowerment,

[00:06:49] the systemic issues that hold women back, healthcare is kind of one facet. You can kind of apply what we might talk about today, what I see in healthcare, what I saw as a nurse as a patient and beyond.

[00:07:02] You can apply that to the economy, to our schooling systems, to business, you know, to absolutely everything. So I guess yeah it's really just another way to be able to do something that I feel like adds good into the world

[00:07:21] and that different means, you know, more through education and raising awareness and forming communities as opposed to the direct, a little bit more direct way of providing this as a nurse. But yeah I guess I kind of see that as the biggest comparison between the two.

[00:07:40] Right and you were coming from a profession that is, you know, 90-ish percent female. So nursing is dominated by women and has been for a long, long time. Even though within that paradigm, male nurses rise to leadership positions often more easily, more quickly.

[00:08:05] They earn more money so the gender gap, the pay gap, everything is there despite the fact that nursing is so female dominated. And despite the fact that there are a lot of nurse leaders within that world of course.

[00:08:21] So we could talk a lot about bias within healthcare in terms of the people who work in healthcare. But your show has focused more, well especially some of the episodes have focused on healthcare bias. Like I'm thinking about the episode with Eleanor Clegghorn.

[00:08:43] She's a writer and she wrote a book called The Unwell Woman. And she's talking about the history of the debilitating disease of menstruation and all the misunderstanding around it. And all the prejudice beliefs that grew from the ancient Greeks and persist to this day.

[00:09:02] How many thousands of years later? And in your newest season, you have interviewed Hillary Clinton, Sherry Blair, so many amazing women. You have a Nobel laureate on the docket for this particular season.

[00:09:21] So you're attracting some women to your show who really have powerful things to say about healthcare, but also about the bigger, bigger issues like pulling the camera back type of issues. What is it that you want women and men who are listening to take away?

[00:09:43] Like what are some of the big lessons so far that you think if you took a giant metaphorical highlighter, that you would highlight those particular issues right now for us?

[00:09:57] Yeah, and it's a good distinction to add the and men in there because it's definitely a show for everyone. And you know, it's crucial that everyone be made aware of these issues.

[00:10:08] That's why I have a bit of an issue and we call these things women's issues because that's not quite, that's a bit of a misnomer, I think. But I think the kind of overarching way that I see all of these issues,

[00:10:23] if I'm going to take a big highlighter as you say, it's really just considering the fact that every single thing in the world has been designed and created by and for men. And not all men for one kind of one color, you know, having a certain income,

[00:10:49] there are qualifications to that. But that fact, you know, you mentioned that with an ancient Greece. We see today, that's a great example because we see today women tend to not be believed about their symptoms when they go and they see a doctor.

[00:11:06] This is part of the conversation that's happening more and more. We know very little about women's sexual health and reproductive health and there continues to be so much stigma shrouded and things that relate to women.

[00:11:24] And you can trace that all the way back as Eleanor does in her book, Unwell Women. You can trace that all the way back to the origins of ancient Greece when, you know, the word hysteria comes from the word womb in Latin.

[00:11:41] They're so inextricably linked to this idea that there's something kind of deranged and slightly just off about a woman's body compared to a man. You have a standard body of a male and a woman is kind of one slight deviation away.

[00:11:58] So that kind of started thousands of years ago.

[00:12:01] And what Eleanor does in her book and what you can do with all of these kinds of issues is trace it century by century, millennia by millennia to figure out where we are to see how we got to the current day problem.

[00:12:18] So that example can really be applied again to everything else. Adam Smith, the founding father of economics created the entire basis of our economic theory without considering all of the free work that women do, mostly women do feeding and raising all of the world's humans.

[00:12:41] And you can see that today, you know, that was in the 1700s or something that Adam Smith was around and you can see that today by the way that we don't put value on childcare.

[00:12:50] So I guess the highlighter, the overarching thing is just zooming out as far as possible and understanding that there are so many deeply embedded implications of women's sins from our world and from the lack of consideration that it takes a little bit of,

[00:13:09] it takes some additional context and understanding of figuring out how we got here. And I think once you start to see one of these examples, you start to kind of see it everywhere.

[00:13:22] So I hope I've answered your question, but it's really just, yeah, looking at it from the standpoint of the headlines that we see today.

[00:13:34] And I think that they stem from much, much deeper and more pervasive issues. And it can be applied to everything from the way we design our city streets to the fact that our iPhones are, you know, pretty big for the size compared to the size of women's hands.

[00:13:52] Women's clothes don't have pockets, you know, all from little to big.

[00:13:57] Speaking of iPhones, you just told me a story before we hopped on that you live in London and this kid was on a bike the other day. You were FaceTiming with your parents and just ripped the phone right out of your hand. So that's just an aside.

[00:14:16] Well, but if we could take that and extrapolate that out. Like here's a woman walking down the street vulnerable, doing an innocent thing talking on the phone with her parents and some kid comes by on a bike and all of a sudden this $1,000 computer that you carry in your hand and curse is gone.

[00:14:33] Right. And your life is upended. And what if that phone would have fit my hand a little bit better, you know. Yeah, there you go. Okay.

[00:14:44] We can look at the really blatant issues all around the world. We can look at the ways in which women are subjugated in other cultures, we can look at female genital mutilation, you know, in various African countries and cultures.

[00:15:02] We could look at girls education or lack thereof in places like Afghanistan, for instance. We can look at human trafficking where it comes to women, you know, slavery, there's so many different pieces of this.

[00:15:22] And you interviewed Sherry Blair, whose husband happened to be the Prime Minister of England back in the day. Well, not that many years ago. Good old Tony.

[00:15:36] And you interviewed Hillary Clinton. You actually interviewed them both on the same episode. I wanted to ask you, what was it like to have women of that level of stature and global recognition and accomplishment on your show?

[00:15:54] And what did you learn from the experience of having them? Like, what's something that stuck with you about Hillary and Sherry that just like cut you to the quick?

[00:16:08] Wow. It was the experience of a lifetime first and most I felt incredibly honored and privileged to be just in the same room with them. And, you know, that's really one thing that I took away is being in the same room with people.

[00:16:27] I guess after after studying these issues, you know, for a while now. And also having really strong feelings about Hillary and the 2016 election and everything that happened there, you know, I feel so just it felt it felt very personal, you know, I went beyond just me kind of doing my job.

[00:16:54] But I could really feel the weight of history in the room. It just was something that I have had a very hard time putting words to being in the room with people who have literally changed the course of history singlehandedly.

[00:17:15] I just think it's, it is hard to put to put words to what that is. What that is like and not to mention that was their first ever joint podcast interview which made me feel an extra sense of responsibility in adding to this history, because it felt like quite a historical moment.

[00:17:35] So it was, it was just really, really an honor and I would say, you know, there's a lot that I learned from the conversation. They have so much to teach us.

[00:17:47] And it was both the hardest and easiest interview I'd ever done because easy because anything that you ask them they provide just insightful, really incredibly incredibly profound answers.

[00:18:07] I think one of the biggest things that I kind of learned and took away was just in this might sound a little cheesy, just their humanity.

[00:18:18] It's a combination of the pedestal that I put them on and the way that media and others can portray anybody, but especially the likes of Hillary Clinton, you know, you form images in your head and they just feel so not human.

[00:19:07] And really inspire, you know, the ethos that I carry which is just that, you know, we're all, we're all the same and our core at the end of the day we we tend to look at the external, our religions, you know how much money we make our skin color or gender.

[00:19:26] But at our core, we're all the exact same and that can be applied to not just the differences I've mentioned but also to people who have done really amazing things in this world that at our core were all the same and anybody listening anybody who wants to can do incredible things as well.

[00:19:47] There's nothing that separates us.

[00:19:50] Yeah, that's it's lovely that you got to experience their, their humanity. And that's not cheesy in my world. That's like, that's pretty core. Right. So you got to experience the humanity like here's two women who've known each other a long time who are friends and colleagues and who love each other I'm sure and respect

[00:20:08] each other and here they were meeting up for the first time in a long time and you got to witness their like greeting one another and their excitement of being in the same room together so that's really cool in and of itself.

[00:20:19] But then you have Hillary Clinton and Sherry Blair the change makers you know the trailblazers the powerful female leaders the powerful leaders in their own right, who have had a global impact on every level no matter how you feel about either of them personally.

[00:20:40] There's no denying their place in history. And you know they are and will be in the history books right.

[00:20:48] So here you are a nurse who's turned podcaster slash let's say journalist right because that's a form of journalism. And you're tackling these big issues like, okay, women's reproductive health is still being impacted by what the positions back in ancient

[00:21:12] Greece deemed hysteria right. So there's these reverberations and you're talking about the built space and you have an episode about how cities were really designed for women per se, and you know, Eleanor Clegg horn talking about, you know medicine.

[00:21:31] And, I mean, she talked about on her episode. How many years it takes the average woman with endometriosis to get diagnosed which I think was 12 years, which is absolutely more than outrageous.

[00:21:50] It's, it's, it's utterly disgusting that a woman with something like endometriosis which can be life threatening and extremely painful might take a decade to get properly diagnosed and that goes for women with multiple sclerosis I mean we could go down the list.

[00:22:09] So we have these big, big, big, big global issues. And then we have all the little local issues all the women who are impacted like reproductive rights here in the United States right now I mean this has not been a small year this past year, all the changes that have happened around abortion access.

[00:22:28] So, in your world in your book.

[00:22:32] How do you pick and choose the issues that you feel are most salient for you to dive deep into do you go with your personal gut do you go with what's in the news right now, because there's so much to choose from.

[00:22:50] Is it, is there option paralysis like oh my gosh, what do I cover. And how do I do justice to it all you know how do you balance the preponderance of topics and the time you have to cover them.

[00:23:05] That's a great question because it is definitely one of the hardest parts is deciding on topics and then limiting the conversations down to like an hour.

[00:23:15] Because there's so many topics and so much to talk about within the topics that it is a struggle and I think my process, especially in the beginning when I was first launching it I really wanted to touch some of the bigger themes so health care, the economy.

[00:23:34] Authority, you know my very first episode was on authority which you know maybe doesn't sit in an industry like health care and economy but it goes across transcends all of the industries that goes across everything the way that we don't like to accord women with authority the way that we see

[00:23:52] authoritative women as aggressive. Yes, etc. An authoritative man is assertive and successful and driven and ambitious but a authoritative woman is oh she's aggressive. Yeah, absolutely. So you can interrupt with that interjection all day.

[00:24:14] That's exactly it we tend to believe that authoritative man as well that's the other thing that I talked about with Mary Ann from that episode is we as we tend to confuse confidence for competence so not only are we okay with that, but we need to believe him because he is saying it

[00:24:32] but yes that's a side tangent.

[00:24:37] So yeah I really wanted to look at issues that everyone or the majority I should say of people could relate to because you know kind of your question in the beginning about the highlighter and talking about how this is all ripple effects from

[00:24:56] long long issues. Really what I wanted to do is just start planting seeds, because I'm never going to be able to provide all of the topics all of the context there's just way too much information.

[00:25:10] So I just wanted to start planting seeds and people's minds to start thinking about the worlds differently, basically and the systems that we operate in so thinking about what systems touch the most amount of people.

[00:25:26] What issues touch the most amount of people. That's kind of how I started because then on your, you know, people can start to go down any path they would like with the same kind of way of thinking about the world and and how they exist within it.

[00:25:45] So, before we take a break I want to ask you one more question. So following up on that what, oh I don't even know how to ask this question.

[00:25:59] What would you like to see women listening to your show and being impacted by these issues which every woman on the planet is impacted by these issues whether she's conscious of it or not.

[00:26:12] What would you like to see women do with this information. There's plenty of things they could do. There's plenty of different roads they could travel in terms of getting fired up about something like how long it takes a woman with endometriosis to get diagnosed, or how

[00:26:33] difficult it is for a woman to go out in the world and be authoritative and, and you know, stake her claim in the world. So do you have an image of what one of your listeners might actually do with this information.

[00:26:51] Yes, I think. Okay. I mean, obviously there's a lot of different ways that I could take this answer because fired up is great, you know wanting to take action is great.

[00:27:04] But at the end of the day, the main thing that I would like women who hear this information to come away with is an understanding that it's not their fault.

[00:27:14] The seed that I want to plant is that they see the system, they understand that it's millennial long they understand that it's not because they're not voicing their symptoms well enough.

[00:27:28] It's because they exist in this system where women aren't always believed about their symptoms so it's about planting a seed of understanding that it's not their fault and then whatever they want to do with that information.

[00:27:42] I mean, they don't, you know, I don't want to put any onus on women. I want to fix the system. So if an individual woman wants to take action in her own life in her doctor's office and her workplace, that's fantastic.

[00:27:59] Of course, I will always champion that. But if she just wants to feel better knowing that it's not her fault, that if she done things differently, it wouldn't necessarily have been a different outcome,

[00:28:11] but whatever it is going on in her, in her life, that is what I want to take away and it might take one, five, 10 years for that seed to grow and for her to decide what she wants to do with that information.

[00:28:24] But I think yeah, some relief knowing that it's a systemic issue and it's not you. That's a great place to begin in terms of what a woman could do with this information is to just personalize it first and realize, yes, it's not me. It's not my fault.

[00:28:46] That's a great place to begin. And when we come back from the break, I want to pick up that thread. I have something I want to ask you about that.

[00:28:55] And then there's so, so much more to talk about. So please hang in there with us and we'll be right back with the second half of episode 421 of the Nurse Keys show with Anna Stecline, founder, producer and host of the Story of Woman podcast. We'll be right back.

[00:29:25] And welcome back to the second half of the episode. We're here again with friend of the pod and my new friend and colleague Anna Stecline. And Anna, prior to the break, I asked you a question about what you could picture one woman doing with the information she hears and

[00:29:43] gleanings from listening to your podcast, the story of women. Here's my follow up question. What would you like a man listening to your show to do to follow up from listening to your show? How would you like him to be impacted in terms of what action he might take in his life in the world around him?

[00:30:08] Love that question. The beginning part of my answer is probably going to be quite similar, which is recognizing the system, the structure, because just as a woman might blame herself, you know, I tend to think that we, I mean, this isn't even just with feminism and gender, we

[00:30:30] very often don't see systems and structures in place and kind of put blame, full blame and full responsibility on on individuals. So I think beginning to understand the system and where he sits within it and where women sit within it, and then using whatever

[00:30:53] voice, power, action, anything that he is able to do in his position to create space. I don't really like the word, you know, help or not trying to help women, but create space for them and whatever that looks like, and the particular, you know, wherever he works or

[00:31:22] if he's married, if he's got kids, starting in the home, what is the work that you're doing at home and is it the same amount of work that your wife is doing?

[00:31:37] Same with, you know, in the starting with seeing the system and then starting personal at home. And then it's going to look a little bit different depending on the type of work that he does but there's so much that can be done in a workplace as well.

[00:31:57] But it all starts with just having the basic foundational understanding and recognizing your own privilege, you know, for, it's the same for me as a white person.

[00:32:12] It is on the onus of me to understand the issues of racial inequity and racial inequity and everything that exists within that space. It's not on the onus of people of color to educate me.

[00:32:31] So it's the same thing with gender, not going to women and having them need to explain everything to you and hold your hand through the process but taking ownership in that this is not women's issues. This is a humanity issue and you play a part.

[00:32:49] So what would you so what can you do in your position to educate yourself further and use whatever privilege and power that you have which will look a little bit different for everyone to start shifting the landscape?

[00:33:04] I'm glad you brought race into it, which I've talked about on the show a fair amount and you're right that we can expect the quote unquote other to hold our hand through the process of learning, though we may learn quite a bit, you know, in conversation and otherwise.

[00:33:25] And we also have to realize that, you know, everyone is a victim of all of these systems that have been put in place for so long. All of these inequities, everyone in some way is hurt by them. Yes.

[00:33:40] Whether we see that clearly or not, whether it's implicit or not, it's there, right? So racism hurts everyone, right? Yeah.

[00:33:51] Of course, it hurts the people who are being who racism is directed towards it hurts them the most of course but there's pain that can be felt everywhere. I mean as a white, you know, cisgender, heterosexual man, you know, there's pain I feel over the fact of like just the

[00:34:13] shame of like feeling shame about being a white man, you know, and it's like, oh my gosh, what do I do with this feeling? And that's that's a tough spot to be, isn't it?

[00:34:25] It is but it's a really, it's a really important point that you just made too. And that's something that I really always try to bring through in the podcast. I mean there's a whole recurring section in the first season about what men stand to gain with the issues that we're talking

[00:34:42] about because yeah it might be worse for women, worse for people of color with all these but it's still having systems that put people in boxes that tell them what they can and can't do who they can and can't be, you know, straight cisgender white men are

[00:35:01] in boxes too and there are limitations placed on you personally but then also of course just the impacts of living in a society that doesn't fully utilize, you know, the half the population and everything that comes with that so it's both personally impacting you as a man and systemically as well.

[00:35:25] So that's a really good point. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So let's talk about you for a second. So where did when and where did your nursing career begin?

[00:35:40] I am originally from St. Louis, Missouri and that is well actually my nursing career I guess would have began with my education down at the University of West Florida where I studied nursing but then I worked as a nurse for a short time in St. Louis before moving to New York City where I worked for a few more years.

[00:36:04] And what are some of the things that you noticed and I'm making the assumption that these issues didn't just like fall into your lap in the last six months. I mean, I'm assuming that this level of awareness and has been with you for a very long time that this is part of who you are, right?

[00:36:25] What happened? Are there any crystallizing moments or experiences in your years as a clinical nurse out there in the world boots on the ground that kind of opened your eyes, shocked you or just were like moments of full

[00:36:47] full awakeness where you realized, oh my gosh, what I'm seeing is really not good here. Like I'm seeing something that should be different.

[00:36:58] You know, it's funny that you say it like that because so much of what I can identify from my nursing career I came to understand later. Because of all that I internalized about these issues, you know, I'm from Missouri.

[00:37:17] I'm from a quite conservative, traditional upbringing. So my first years out of university, you know, still early 20s, still very much not aware of these issues. You know, a big motivating factor of me starting this podcast and wanting to start planting seeds is because I grew up in a bubble where none of these seeds existed.

[00:37:42] So I can definitely talk to instances, but I'm not sure it's hard to like really know for sure. So I can talk to many different instances, but my understanding of them was really shaped kind of years after as I began to intellectualize and and learn so I can look back and you know I worked in the emergency department

[00:38:11] in New York City, which was quite the experience night shift. North Harlem, it was, it was pretty crazy but there are two patients that I can remember two women who were in one had just kind of generalized gastritis pain and

[00:38:40] I worked in an environment this is one thing that kind of pushed me out of the field I worked in a quite unsafe environment where I would come in on shift at nights and have like 16 emergency patients it was just completely untenable and unsafe and we weren't supported by our managers and all kinds of things but

[00:38:58] I had one woman who just, you know, had had stomach pains and I think the orders were just to, you know, give her some. I don't remember what some mild medication and, and that's about it and she said she was there for hours and hours and I remember she was like very vocal about pain that she was in about her experience is something not being right something

[00:39:25] and at some point she got an EKG and now this is, you know, this has been a decade so my specifics aren't going to be exactly right but at some point tests were finally run and it turns out she was having a heart attack and you know then I get into this years down the line and I learn about how

[00:39:47] the symptoms of a heart attack that we typically associate with that clutching your chest and all what we what we the Hollywood heart attack I think it's called everything that we envision.

[00:40:00] That's mainly experienced by men women can experience that right. Yeah, but that mild guest or that gastritis that just feeling like something's not quite right everything she was experiencing was classic symptoms for a woman.

[00:40:16] Yeah, but nobody nobody recognize that and I can recall in nursing school saying a little teeny tiny paragraph at the bottom of the you know cardiac chapters about the a about the. What's the word. We're not standard.

[00:40:35] A typical. Yeah, a typical tiny paragraph at the bottom about the atypical symptoms that women can experience and I just find that astounding that atypical is symptoms for half the population. Yeah, a little footnote. Right. Yeah.

[00:40:51] Yeah, the Hollywood heart attack clutching the chest right you that's that's a very male thing and I have heard that women having heart attacks can have stomach pain back pain flank pain.

[00:41:03] Yeah, you know, and it's not the numbness down the arm and that the left sided or centralized chest pain that men experience and there is an example of we could say possibly going back to Eleanor Clegg Horn's interview on your show last season of hysteria right going

[00:41:23] back to that root of womb his does in hysterectomy right where this woman is seen as hysterical she's overblowing her symptoms maybe she's a drug seeker maybe she just wants attention and you know she's howling in the other room and you

[00:41:42] know give her some Tylenol and just ignore her and pay attention to the patients who were really sick right then it turns out she has she's had a heart attack and you and I both know and everyone listening knows that when it comes to heart attack and stroke

[00:41:56] time is crucial and the more quickly we try to assuage the symptoms and turn things around the better so who knows yours.

[00:42:08] And so years later what she's experienced based on her symptoms being ignored for so many hours. So, here we have health care bias, and it doesn't just affect women's reproductive health so that's in the news a lot lately here in 2023 right

[00:42:30] a lot of women are being impacted by that in various states around the US and around the world. So gender figures so much in health care and health care delivery, just like we mentioned earlier with women waiting so many years to get diagnosed

[00:42:48] let's say endometriosis. So you, you're still a nurse I mean you your nurseness is there. And what do you think what kind of parrot is paradigmatic paradigmatic word, what kind of paradigm shift could happen.

[00:43:11] I'm seeing a lot of female millennial nurses rising into positions of power. And I've had some here on this show. What can happen as we have a generational shift.

[00:43:27] What do you picture might be some of the positive repercussions of that as we move forward like say in the next 10 to 20 years if you could see it what would it might it look like.

[00:43:41] I think you've just about hit the nail on the head talking about women rising in positions of power. I think that's, that's first and foremost getting women in higher levels within health care delivery, but also, you know who's who's writing the textbooks who's doing the research who's funding the research who's

[00:44:04] who's research is getting funded, who's participating in the in the trial so I guess not just power but anything that's influencing this system needs to be kind of evened out. And there needs to be women represented at every stage and similar on the flip side of that we need more men in nursing.

[00:44:28] I think getting a greater gender balance across the board with more women and positions of power and you know research and dimension but also more men and to the fields of nursing to to equalize the playing field that way is just as important.

[00:44:47] So yeah I think, I think we're moving in the right direction and I think in order to truly rectify these millennia long issues. It has to happen. There just has to be equal representation at every level.

[00:45:10] And then a parallel thing happening in society where journalists continue talking about these issues where books continue being written about them, and we're women and all people feel empowered when they go into doctors office to that they're going to be able to say what they're experiencing and not feel gaslit so I think it also goes across the board on the patient side as well.

[00:45:39] That feeling okay demanding, you know someone listen to us. You know when I think of women moving into positions of power and I'm thinking of the millennial generation specifically who you know the oldest millennials an hour in their in their early 40s.

[00:45:57] I think about my friend Charlene Platten who I've talked about on this show before, and has been a one one of my other podcasts.

[00:46:05] Who's the director of ambulatory nursing at Stanford, and she's a powerful empowered millennial woman and she's proud of that fact, you know, and she's changing what she sees around her.

[00:46:19] I think about Alexandria Kaseo Cortez who's sort of you know a, a polarizing figure in some ways in the culture. However, she's representative of millennial women now holding levers of power or starting to hold more levers of power at the legislative level.

[00:46:40] And, you know, just a few episodes ago on episode 418 I had Kimberly Gordon on from healing politics. And that's an organization that is encouraging nurses especially in healthcare providers to run for elected office.

[00:47:00] So the more enlightened people we have running, not just for president or member of parliament or Senate but for state senate for city council for school board for library board, you know whatever level at which they would like to be involved.

[00:47:22] That's where things can change as well. Because you know, legislation doesn't solve everything it's not possible, but it can have an impact who is making the laws don't you think so. Yes, pretty important.

[00:47:40] And it's not the be all and end all and we can't solve it all through legislation, but we need people in positions of power. So that's one reason I think that episode is important because of that, that drive to get more, more healthcare providers, women and men to run for elected office.

[00:47:59] Love that idea. Yeah. So, oh my gosh, Anna there's so many things to talk about so little time. So, when it comes to reproductive health. And this is a polarizing issue and especially in the US I don't know quite about the UK where you live now.

[00:48:18] But in terms of reproductive health it sounds to me from just listening and watching and observing that that is an enormous issue right now that underscores women's ability to. Make the best decisions for themselves or not be able to.

[00:48:42] What, what would you like to see happen and do you feel like you want to cover that even more deeply on your show because it's such a driving force right now in the culture.

[00:48:56] Yes, this is such a driving force in the culture and it's also for me personally one of the biggest issues when I talk about those those seeds as I've talked about throughout this conversation.

[00:49:11] That was one of the first seeds that was planted for me because of my upbringing in conservative Missouri I was raised pro life and abortion is bad and people that have them are bad.

[00:49:25] And then you know years go by and I start forming my own opinions to my own research and understanding of the world and that was just blown wide open so I've been on the other side, if you will.

[00:49:41] So I feel very strongly personally because of the morality behind it all you know that it's cloaked in that this is the moral way.

[00:49:55] When the reality is that if a woman isn't able to decide if and when she not just goes through the very dangerous especially in America and especially if you're black or person, a woman of color.

[00:50:13] Nine months that it takes to form this human but then to have to to raise another human being if a woman is not able to decide that she will not be able to create a life that is hers or it will be very, very difficult, especially you know I think confounded on this issue in America specifically.

[00:50:38] It's such a big issue in general because that's the biggest, you know one of the biggest decisions a person could ever make in their life that comes down to so many different factors and influences that nobody else could decide except for that person making the decision so there's.

[00:50:54] There's all of that but then on top of that is the lack of support for mothers for parents for families in America you know where the only the only. Modern. We're the only developed country in the world that doesn't have paid leave.

[00:51:16] Child care is extortionate you know women are dropping out of the workforce at alarmingly high rates right now following the pandemic and everything that's happening so not only are we not leaving it up to women to make the decision for themselves but then.

[00:51:34] We're not giving them any we're not giving them any support when they do decide to become a parent so and a lot of ways we are forcing women into poverty. So it's, it's such a fundamental and large issue and it's.

[00:51:48] It's such a big issue that I had fired up about that I forget the original question that you asked.

[00:51:54] It's alright it's alright no I I'm glad I elicited that from you know we that is an issue of the day that is unavoidable when we talk about health care when we talk about women's sense of personal agency and their ability to make choices you know for themselves for their.

[00:52:16] Health for their family for their financial well being etc etc and you're right I mean if we're going to tell women that if they get pregnant they have to have a child then. We could at least provide.

[00:52:30] Child care support paid leave all the things that are you know. Provided in other countries where women actually have that ability to you know be more present for their children because they can actually.

[00:52:48] Earn a living while they're raising their children right mean my friends in Holland you know they just can't even imagine having to pay for university like that makes no sense to them at all they get you know.

[00:53:05] Enormous amounts of maternal maternal and paternal leave when a child is born I mean there's just no there's no comparison and they can't even.

[00:53:16] Fathom what we do and don't have here in the United States so there are just so many issues and gosh and you know I look forward to your podcast the story of women expanding and continuing to grow and addressing the issues that.

[00:53:34] You know are the ones that present themselves to you that you would truly like to cover and you are a figure at health podcast network in terms of health unmuted. Which is this library of healthcare and medical podcasts that Dan Kendall's been.

[00:53:52] Kind of curating and creating at the health podcast network and he was on episode three eighty nine and we were talking about the network and health unmuted so tell me about your involvement with the whole health unmuted project. Yeah I'd love to.

[00:54:10] I really really enjoyed working on this project because it was a beautiful way for me to combine my nursing background and expertise with my newfound love and skills of podcasting bringing that together so health unmuted exactly as you say it's an audio library of a bunch of different

[00:54:32] mini series so six to eight episodes that are 15 usually about 15 minutes long each episode that really dives deep into different diseases and conditions. Really giving people an overview of what is it who's at risk what causes it what are some symptoms and taking you through that journey.

[00:54:57] And it's really meant you know the listeners that we have in mind when creating it our people who are just newly diagnosed and their loved ones so you just receive a diagnosis and it's kind of where do you start where you go from here.

[00:55:11] It's very easy to get overloaded with information on on Google and even in the hospital or wherever you're at so.

[00:55:20] The intention of it is really this is a place to get started with these short episodes that tell you all the main overviews of the things you need to know and then there's lots of call outs to additional resources and ways to continue educating yourself and going down that journey.

[00:55:37] And I was involved in I wore pretty much most of the hats.

[00:55:45] In various different so I started out and helping to find some of the guests that appear on the show so the way that we created them is by interviewing people that are living with the diseases and conditions and their loved ones their caregivers but also health practitioners so nurses doctors.

[00:56:06] And I started to find out a lot of the people that were specialists and I originally started finding the different voices.

[00:56:16] People who wanted to share their story and help join in this narrative and then I got involved actually hosting one and helping to produce it so that was the most recent one that I worked on was the Parkinson's disease podcast and I got to conduct all the interviews with the guests on it.

[00:56:36] And then actually helped to put the story together so the way that the sound when you listen to them as you have this different voices and perspectives that we weave together in scripted narrative that kind of adds some additional context to what the people that were interviewing are saying so.

[00:56:56] We want to really really make sure that we're giving people accurate information and things are always changing in this landscape so a big part of that job is really you know fact checking things that people are saying making sure we're including all of the most important information that people need to know and yeah that was kind of kind of the overview as it was working with with the people themselves which is my favorite part about podcasting it's getting to talk to people.

[00:57:24] Me too that's wonderful and I think you told me there are seven episodes of the Parkinson's podcast on health unmuted and I know I think the first one was the Alzheimer's series and that is really.

[00:57:42] I mean both of these are diseases that people really truly need to know about and you know I know Alan Alda remember Alan Alda from mash the actor. He has Parkinson's disease and he has talked about it on his podcast and there's one amazing interview with Michael J Fox from several years ago and they shared together about their lives living with Parkinson's disease so if you've never heard that episode it's pretty cool.

[00:58:10] So anyway that's awesome that you're involved with health unmuted and major Pugh Mungo enormous ginormous shout out to Dan Kendall who is absolutely amazing so people will check out health unmuted and of course the health podcast network.

[00:58:25] Yes and I join in that shout out is just a pleasure working with him and helping to create these and yeah there's Alzheimer's their COPD and there's everything else under the sun that's going to be coming diabetes breast cancer migraine sickle cell so absolutely everything so keep a close watch.

[00:58:47] And I encourage people to to subscribe they can go to the story of woman podcast calm and also Facebook Instagram Twitter Tiktok and LinkedIn and they can subscribe on any podcast app and before we go I have four lightning questions I ask all my guests are you are you willing to partake of a lightning round.

[00:59:12] I'm willing let's do it. Yeah. So the first question is how do you define success personally and or professionally.

[00:59:23] I think it might be a wishful answer and not very lightning but I think it depends on the situation I think the definition of success should should always be contingent on the person in this situation. So you're saying each person gets to define what success is for them.

[00:59:46] Yeah and it might look different today than it does tomorrow than it does you know in a month's time and that's OK.

[00:59:53] I really like that because that actually that says a lot about you and what you're what you're all about what I perceive you being all about which is people having a sense of agency. So I appreciate that so it just fits right in with the whole theme.

[01:00:13] OK second question this one might be hard for you.

[01:00:17] Could you name or maybe just describe one person who's inspired you in the course of your life they can be living or dead famous or not famous and I know you know a lot of amazing people so who's one person you think you would want to call out.

[01:00:35] Oh yeah that is that is definitely difficult but I think I have to say Gloria Steinem. Oh do tell.

[01:00:46] Yes Gloria Steinem for anyone who's not familiar was one of the leading feminist of the what's called the second wave in the 60s and 70s and for one I had the honor of meeting her last year so you know she naturally goes up in my book a little bit from that but also

[01:01:05] I just kind of studied her when I was launching this podcast and the way that she approaches these issues are it's very

[01:01:17] collaborative and inclusive and she's always kind of been ahead of her time in the way that she approaches these issues so I've always kind of looked to her for guidance in my own work and studied the way that she's carried herself and yeah tackle these issues.

[01:01:38] That's really great that you got to meet her that's lovely I'm really glad you've met some pretty powerful people out there in the world. Yeah it's been it's it's been a wild few years that's for sure.

[01:01:50] Yeah that's wonderful okay third question is there a book or a movie and it doesn't have to be an absolute favorite because that's just too hard to pin down for most of us but just one that's had a major impact.

[01:02:04] On the way you think the way you live your life or the way you approach your work in the world. Very hard because everything influences me.

[01:02:18] But I will I will I will have an answer because okay again I talked about these seeds a lot but you could see my way of thinking and I can look back at one book that I read that allowed me to take

[01:02:34] the idea that I had for the podcast forward so you know as we've talked about I was a nurse I didn't have experience in this world and what usually happens is I get an idea something I want to do away I want to make change in the world and then I just kind of sit on it and don't do anything with it.

[01:02:50] But I read a book called untamed by Glennon Doyle which.

[01:02:55] Yeah, a lot of people have heard of very popular book and you know the core of it is really starting to recognize the systems that we've been talking about and and not even needing to understand them but just going back to yourself being still and understanding what you want in this world and.

[01:03:18] Working out ways to try and not be influenced by all of the messages that we've been receiving our entire lives. Covertly and more overtly that might shift us in different directions so after I read that book.

[01:03:33] I decided that I was 100% going to start the podcast because I felt like the values within it really instilled in me the confidence that I was lacking before I started the book. Awesome thank you untamed. Mm hmm yeah. Yeah, Glennon Doyle. Yeah. Okay. Last question.

[01:03:54] If you were named Queen of the World tomorrow. And I can picture you in a tarot tiara for sure. That's one of the first things you would want to do to improve the lives of your subjects.

[01:04:08] And you don't have to equivocate too much because being Queen of the World means you have ultimate power. So I'm just wondering like what's one of the first actions you would want to take.

[01:04:22] I would want to, and well because I'm Queen of the World other people can figure out how to do this but. Yeah, the how doesn't matter. Okay, okay, cool. I like that. I like being Queen of the World. Economic equality. Mm hmm. Economic equality across the entire globe.

[01:04:39] So you would start there? Yes, yeah. Yeah, yeah and being Queen of the World right it doesn't matter. You would have the ability to find the people who would help you make that happen. Yeah. But that again I mean all of your answers fit into this, this.

[01:04:57] I don't know this sphere of in which you seem to move which is equality, you know, lack of bias, you know, equal opportunity, you know really trying to level the playing field for as many people as possible in as many ways as possible right. Absolutely freedom for everyone.

[01:05:19] And men as well as we talked about. Yeah, there's an idea for a podcast. It would be called Queen of the World.

[01:05:27] And on each episode you'd interview a woman and she would just get to tell you exactly what the world would look like if she could make all the decisions. Yes, I love this idea. Yeah, take it to yours. I might pivot. Thank you. Thank you.

[01:05:44] Well, Anna this has been so so wonderful and I recommend everybody listen to the story of women podcast I'm going to be sharing it far and wide.

[01:05:55] And I think there's lots of amazing conversations to come. You're just getting started you're just in season two so there's more, much more to come.

[01:06:05] And this has been so fun and I want to have you back sometime so we can talk some more but this has been really awesome.

[01:06:13] I love to be back so yeah anytime thank you so much. This has been incredible I love your podcast I love what you're doing for nurses and yeah I will keep following the show and I'm glad to now be friends. Thank you my friend.

[01:06:29] Well there you have it thanks for listening to this awesome episode of the nurse Keith show remember the show notes to be at nurse Keith calm or just look on any app where you happen to be listening.

[01:06:39] Please follow Anna's decline and the story of women podcast let her know you're out there. Throw her a rating and review once you've listened to some episodes because you will be moved by the show.

[01:06:51] If you need personalized holistic career coaching, please look no further than nurse Keith coaching and nurse Keith calm mentioned the show and get 10% off your first coaching package.

[01:07:01] If you want to become a patron over at patreon.com forward slash nurse Keith feel free even $2 a month helps a great deal so if you'd like to become a patron I would appreciate it oh so much.

[01:07:13] We're proud members of the health podcast network at health podcast network calm. We're adroitly produced by Rob Johnson 520 our podcasting in Mark Cappy's Beeson is our social media ringmaster and newsletter Wrangler.

[01:07:29] Before we say goodbye I'll leave you with this quote by Brene Brown because true belonging only happens when we present our authentic imperfect selves to the world. Our sense of belonging can never be greater than our level of self acceptance.

[01:07:45] Be well dig deep seek joy keep in touch this is nurse Keith sing audios till next time from beautiful Santa Fe New Mexico where it happens to be snowing a lot more than I would like.

[01:07:56] And the innumerable Anna Stuckwein saying Arrivederci from London where it's actually kind of sunny right now. London England lovely thank you so much Anna thanks to everyone for listening and we'll catch you on the proverbial flipside.